I just wanted to comment on this idea that fantasy gamers brought about the end of WHFB themselves, because this is not the first time i have heard it and its often framed as a betrayal on our part.
When i started the hobby you could spend 55 NZD on a box set of core troops for whatever army, be it 40k or WHFB, and usually you would 20 minis , there were exceptions like Necrons or Space Marines but most of the time it was 55 NZD for a box of twenty minis. Now that was a good price, a affordable price that had younger me dreaming of the armies i could create. Then GW raised the price and dropped the mini count down, i remember the Cadiain box going down to 10 models for instance.
This is why the notion that WHFB gamers “Betrayed” GW is so stupid, they shot first when they hiked the prices and lowered the mini count, and this cycle went on and on until you get to the situation where you pay 80 NZD for 10 minis and of course it ends with GW killing WHFB and telling all its fantasy fans to off bugger because they want to sell exclusively to their 40k fans. WHFB was killed because we weren’t buying enough minis but the reason why were weren’t buying enough minis was because they hiked the prices again and again. They started the clock for WHFB retriement with that first price hike.
Dude, they are a company. I don’t think the comment was that GW felt betrayed. Its that GW couldn’t figure out how to grow the fantasy line of products in a way that could help them deliver for their shareholders. The leadership isn’t really creative enough to figure out a way to monetize, or execute on the ideas they did have. Remember storm of magic? Can we talk about how dumb it is to have a Total War WHFB game out and not have models ready to sell for people who play that game and get interested?
Really GW is in some ways like a comic book company that hasn’t realized that you won’t continue to grow the business just selling comics. They have tried other things, but they are so incompetent and their IP is a bit more difficult to monetize than a well known superhero. Instead of branching out and making a shit load of high quality games that tie into a resell of their core products, they half assessed everything and decided you could sell table top models as status products. The problem is, no one gives a fuck about fancy table top models without a game. Cool mini or not is a great example of company taking IP and converting it into sellable products. Models are also durable goods, so you have to think of something new all the time, cuz people don’t all of a sudden need more like they will with comics or lube.
They saw the numbers for fantasy, saw the lack of growth, and decided that it would be better to can it and try to recreate the rube based money farm that is 40K. They never felt betrayed by the gamers, they just felt like it wasn’t worth continued investment based on their understanding of their customers.
They could have shelved it like a specialist game say, but the death of fantasy would mean that the previous models we all own are no longer worth anything, and so they have found a way to make it so their existing customers would have a need for additional units of their product (like they might have for comics or lube).
The problem is that they are so fucking stupid that they didn’t understand that the thing that made the models have value was the framework of a well balanced game that includes a lot of valid tactical options. Thus people would slowly want to try a broader range of the product after getting their start. With AoS, they made something that virtually guarantee that after you buy 1 model and play one game you will feel like a dumbass for participating in the process.
So no, I don’t think that anyone would say that fans betrayed GW. GW is too stupid to understand customer relations in way that normal people might. No, this whole process seems much more like someone took a single business class and decided that the numbers they were seeing in their spreadsheet justified killing their second biggest IP. Bonus, of getting to create stupid trademarkable names for everything.
I think he’s got a point and I’ll even go one further. When did fantasy really start to decline? When 8th dropped and suddenly people had to buy stupid numbers so their armies were useful. We had to run larger numbers of core models. Now while this looks like a good idea from a financial viewpoint, it pissed people off. Then the gouging that is GW prices made it worse. Not only do you need 50 more core models, but they quadrupled in price too!
When most games allow you to collect a fully functional army for a few hundred bucks, GW expects people to drop the same few hundred for ONE UNIT. That’s when people started to bail out.
40k on the other hand is all about min-maxing so while the prices are still crazy, you can buy what you want. Of course its also a convoluted mess that’s about as fair and balanced as a redneck at a trump rally which is why it’s also losing steam. Since 40k is still holding on, it starts to make sense why fantasy got tied to a tree and shot while they made “40k with swords!” as a “replacement”.
Personally i love the extended something shiny. I’m not into dr who at all, but friends are. Your coverage of it let me actually talk to them about it a little. Plus its fun hearing your take on other aspects of nerd culture outsidr gaming. I’m pretty jaded too so its nice to hear opinions similar to my own presented in a fun and entertaining way. Absolutely toss us an extended something shiny when you have something good to cover.
Jaded Gamercast 
I just wanted to comment on this idea that fantasy gamers brought about the end of WHFB themselves, because this is not the first time i have heard it and its often framed as a betrayal on our part.
When i started the hobby you could spend 55 NZD on a box set of core troops for whatever army, be it 40k or WHFB, and usually you would 20 minis , there were exceptions like Necrons or Space Marines but most of the time it was 55 NZD for a box of twenty minis. Now that was a good price, a affordable price that had younger me dreaming of the armies i could create. Then GW raised the price and dropped the mini count down, i remember the Cadiain box going down to 10 models for instance.
This is why the notion that WHFB gamers “Betrayed” GW is so stupid, they shot first when they hiked the prices and lowered the mini count, and this cycle went on and on until you get to the situation where you pay 80 NZD for 10 minis and of course it ends with GW killing WHFB and telling all its fantasy fans to off bugger because they want to sell exclusively to their 40k fans. WHFB was killed because we weren’t buying enough minis but the reason why were weren’t buying enough minis was because they hiked the prices again and again. They started the clock for WHFB retriement with that first price hike.
Dude, they are a company. I don’t think the comment was that GW felt betrayed. Its that GW couldn’t figure out how to grow the fantasy line of products in a way that could help them deliver for their shareholders. The leadership isn’t really creative enough to figure out a way to monetize, or execute on the ideas they did have. Remember storm of magic? Can we talk about how dumb it is to have a Total War WHFB game out and not have models ready to sell for people who play that game and get interested?
Really GW is in some ways like a comic book company that hasn’t realized that you won’t continue to grow the business just selling comics. They have tried other things, but they are so incompetent and their IP is a bit more difficult to monetize than a well known superhero. Instead of branching out and making a shit load of high quality games that tie into a resell of their core products, they half assessed everything and decided you could sell table top models as status products. The problem is, no one gives a fuck about fancy table top models without a game. Cool mini or not is a great example of company taking IP and converting it into sellable products. Models are also durable goods, so you have to think of something new all the time, cuz people don’t all of a sudden need more like they will with comics or lube.
They saw the numbers for fantasy, saw the lack of growth, and decided that it would be better to can it and try to recreate the rube based money farm that is 40K. They never felt betrayed by the gamers, they just felt like it wasn’t worth continued investment based on their understanding of their customers.
They could have shelved it like a specialist game say, but the death of fantasy would mean that the previous models we all own are no longer worth anything, and so they have found a way to make it so their existing customers would have a need for additional units of their product (like they might have for comics or lube).
The problem is that they are so fucking stupid that they didn’t understand that the thing that made the models have value was the framework of a well balanced game that includes a lot of valid tactical options. Thus people would slowly want to try a broader range of the product after getting their start. With AoS, they made something that virtually guarantee that after you buy 1 model and play one game you will feel like a dumbass for participating in the process.
So no, I don’t think that anyone would say that fans betrayed GW. GW is too stupid to understand customer relations in way that normal people might. No, this whole process seems much more like someone took a single business class and decided that the numbers they were seeing in their spreadsheet justified killing their second biggest IP. Bonus, of getting to create stupid trademarkable names for everything.
I think he’s got a point and I’ll even go one further. When did fantasy really start to decline? When 8th dropped and suddenly people had to buy stupid numbers so their armies were useful. We had to run larger numbers of core models. Now while this looks like a good idea from a financial viewpoint, it pissed people off. Then the gouging that is GW prices made it worse. Not only do you need 50 more core models, but they quadrupled in price too!
When most games allow you to collect a fully functional army for a few hundred bucks, GW expects people to drop the same few hundred for ONE UNIT. That’s when people started to bail out.
40k on the other hand is all about min-maxing so while the prices are still crazy, you can buy what you want. Of course its also a convoluted mess that’s about as fair and balanced as a redneck at a trump rally which is why it’s also losing steam. Since 40k is still holding on, it starts to make sense why fantasy got tied to a tree and shot while they made “40k with swords!” as a “replacement”.
Personally i love the extended something shiny. I’m not into dr who at all, but friends are. Your coverage of it let me actually talk to them about it a little. Plus its fun hearing your take on other aspects of nerd culture outsidr gaming. I’m pretty jaded too so its nice to hear opinions similar to my own presented in a fun and entertaining way. Absolutely toss us an extended something shiny when you have something good to cover.
Yeah keep em coming. I sure as fuck don’t listen to you for news and rumours. Bring on the jaded bitching